Okay, here's the deal. The Plaintiffs in the redistricting lawsuit have until November 22nd to settle this thing. The Council hammered out the new districts, but the Plaintiffs appear to be unhappy.
Well, if we do accept this resolution drawn up by November 22, it will only cost US (ALL CITIZENS) $2,500.00 + $400.00 (filing fees) for Mr. Beardsley.
IF WE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS OFFER, WE WILL BE PAYING FROM 60,000.00 TO 100,000.00, according to the JUDGE.
No offense boys, but if it comes to that -- pretty sure they will make the Plaintiff's pay that money -- other citizens will be outraged at that kind of cost.
By the way, did you ever ask Keith Henderson, the Prosecutor, why he advised the Council to table the issue in '02? Details, Details......
There won't be any friends amongst a lot of peoples and politicians if Plaintiffs force us down the road of $100,000.00. Please settle -- it's a good redistricting plan, and fair...
Just my opinions.
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31 comments:
We don't have enough money to support the City budget now. Our property taxes are going through the roof and we CAN NOT pay any more property taxex.
All of the persons fighting over redistricting should pay for this legal battle out of their own pockets.
OUR POCKETS ARE EMPTY!
Where is the document that states that the plaintiffs want a committee set up and they want the committee members to be paid $50.00 per day ?
They also want us to pay their attorney $5,000.
How many city committees are we taxpayers paying now and getting NOTHING DONE ?
Let's call the TAXPAYERS GROUP
back to town right now. This is
a good example of why we need to
abolish Property Taxes !
Why should we even bother with the expense of the first red cent redistricting in the first place when our council is, and has been, and more than likely will continue to be an impotent, antiquated, dysfunctional, a few new faces amungst the same tired self serving incumbent panjandrums. Either way this goes, we are wasting our time, and money.
Honestly, how can the council even consider spending one moments time on a redistricting issue when are streets are collapsing, our infrastructure is failing, our crime rates are rising, while property values are declining.
It should just be left alone. An incompetent councilman representing a newly zoned district is just as ineffective as he/she was in the previous districtricing.
Okay FCD, here's the real deal---!
A. Yes, the Plaintiffs are unhappy. We are unhappy that it takes this kind of action by citizens to get our elected officials to even consider doing that which they are required by law to do.
Unhappy as well that when backed into a corner of their making, they choose to rush through this very important procedure in a haphazard manner instaed of taking the time to do it right.
B.The November 22nd deadline is a myth of their making also. There has been no such edict signed, sealed nor deliverd by the court.
C.I'll concede, in principle that the plan put forth at the Friday meeting is better than that which was rumored to exist.
It can however be much improved, and we hold that it must be in order to acheive fair representation for our citizens as required by law.
D.In order to avoid going to trial, this Council need only to take a deep breath, agree to listen to us, work with us, consider carefully our concerns and let this thing lie dormant until after the first of the year. Then they'll have the time to do the research, study the results, and come up with a better plan.
By the way, can someone explain to me how a public hearing to consider the publics views can work when the public is not allowed to ask questions?? That one still confuses me.
E. As to the query of why Keith Henderson was never asked why he advised the then sitting Council to table the the issue, I'll throw that back to those of you who where the watchdogs at the time. Why didn't you???
You've got it wrong.
Again.
Highwayman, there is absolutely no way anyone can make every Council meeting, though people seem to think we were fixtures in the room, whether Council or Sewer Board meetings.
Guess we will have to check the minutes out on that one...but, remember what Mr. Henderson would say and then the then Clerk would stop taking minutes -- "if it's not in the minutes, it never happened".
Tough cookie to crack.
New Albanian, my opinions -- yours.
To answer Highwayman:
A. I can't wait to see what OTHER lawsuits the Plaintiffs are going to file to get "elected officials to even consider doing that which they are required by law to do" - you know, ALL the elected officials and ALL those other laws.
B. Tribune article published Aug 26, 07 states "A tentative settlement hammered out in federal court Friday evening directs the New Albany City Council to redraw the boundaries of its six voting districts by Nov. 22".
C. Perhaps this plan has achieved fair representation for all citizens of New Albany. I guess the judge will decide that issue.
D. I believe Public Hearings are for the Council to hear what the Public has to say concerning whatever is up for a Hearing. I think you can ask those questions, but I don't think there is a legal requirement that the public must get answers to their questions. It is up to the Council members whether or not to carry on discussions about those questions. If there is a law addressing that issue, let me know because there were lots and lots of questions I never got any answers to!
E. I didn't have to ask Mr. Keith Henderson because he said it was
too late. The Council did not pass the ordinance by the legal deadline
of November 4.
Council minutes Nov. 21, 2002: Mr. Pearcy asks City Attorney Keith Henderson for his opinion. Mr.
Henderson responded that the statute is clear: The redistricting process should have been completed by November 8. He advises against proceeding. Stan Robinson concurred with Mr. Henderson's opinion and the November 8 date.
Now a question to the attorney for the citizens of New Albany (there really isn't an attorney, but there should be)--Question: If the city (current citizens) have to pay for this lawsuit, can the citizens therefore sue Mr. Keith Henderson for giving wrong advice? How about the City Council attorney?(Don't they have insurance to cover that?)
Blame the plaintiffs, blame Mr. Henderson. Where's the blame on the Council(including you know who)?
It's the Council's fault--100%. Any money spent to do this correctly is the Council's fault.
If, in the opinion of the plaintiff, the proposal is still not fair should they just give up because it will cost money? Your opinion is that it is fair. Theirs seems to be that it is not. Like you sometimes ask us to defer to you on sewer matters because of your work, perhaps we should defer to the plaintiffs because of their work and knowledge of the subject.
There are simply a lot of questions surrounding this entire subject; unanswered questions at that.
After reviewing the minutes FOS posted, I distinctly remember the meeting in question and why Mr. Henderson said what he said. He said it was too late to do anything about it because they didn't suspend the rules and do all 3 readings at that first meeting.
Mr. Kochert & Mr. Goldberg discuss suspending rules for something to do with sewers (what else) and Mr. Goldberg refused unless they let the rules be suspended and pass do three readings. Blah, Blah, Blah.
My question is why didn't anyone sue in 2002? Why now?
Seeing a lot of the Plaintiffs are residents of the E Spring St area, and discovering that one of the Candidate's for Council wife and mother are Plaintiffs...getting uneasy about the conflict of interest of being on the City Council and impacting your own lawsuit where you are suing yourself (and me).
So, deep subject and I'm sure there's more to come...with that November 22nd date looming over all of our heads, Plaintiffs or no Plaintiffs......
One more thing. To the best of my recollection I do not recall any of these Plaintiffs (especially ones saying they want to "work with the Council") speak publically with the Council at a public meeting about this issue, period. All I have witnessed is heckling of the Council, heckling and intimidation when public speaks...I never observed any one of these Plaintiffs approach that lecturn and speak with the Council and say it was an issue.
And yes, sometimes it does feel like intimidation when you see yourself on someone else's blog simply because you choose to speak to your elected officials and you may or may not even know what the subject matter is, but ignorant harpooning of certain people trying to do the right thing ticks me off.
If I can stand up there and tell the Council (respectfully, of course) how I feel, why didn't any of you? That may be where arguments may fall down with me on this issue. When did you try working with Council? Why didn't you sue in 2002? Who, What, When, Where, and Why...
Why did not the council redistrict in 2003? 2004? 2005?
No matter what you say, it is the Council's fault. Everything else that you say about it is not relevant. That is not opinion, that is fact. You know it and I know it. IT IS opinion(not fact) on the proposed plan. I have not seen it so as of right now, I have none. You think it is a good enough plan. Others do not.
WOW! If what I am reading is correct, then, one of the Council Candidates who will be on the ballot in November is suing the City of New Albany!
Is this a Republican or Democrat candidate ? What district is he running for ?
If he gets elected to council, then,
can he legally vote to pay the fees
for this group who is suing the city?
This mess gets crazier every day.
Why didn't African-Americans gain equality instantly following the Emancipation Proclamation?
(Answer: Lots of people were agin' it, and for political reasons, the ones opopsed were not held accountable)
Why didn't Ms. Bolovschak stand up for taxpayer rights back in 2000 and shortly thereafter, when the sewer situation "exploded"?
(Answer: Because she didn't live here then)
Why does it matter?
Dunno. You tell us. The council could have made the fix at any time, but didn't. They could have been sued at any time -- and were
As far as I know, several of the plaintiffs asked to be removed from the lawsuit since it was filed. I suspect John to be among them.
It's ironic, eh? We're all in the same boat; we just want the law enforced and the job done correctly. So, why all the backpedaling?
I have not tried working with any one on the council regarding this particular issue, so my opinion remains the same, and that is based on previous experiences with them.
I have found the majority, and one council member in particular to be as useless and helpful as a a roll of soaking wet toilet paper.
There is a lot of tsk tsking and finger shaking at the Plaintiffs in this case, but by God, what about the failure to act on the behalf of the council.
IF the law states the redistricting needed to be looked at prior to the 2002 census, why was there no plan set in to action BEFORE the census? A little bit of proactiveness (I know with local government being proactive is like throwing holy water on the damned) could have avoided this entire situation. Here we sit 5 YEARS after the census, arguing amongst ourselves.
Meanwhile, instead of pouring every single available hour he has into this issue, and many others, our esteemed council supreme procrastinator is doing what???
Digging holes in his yard a glaring at people who drive down his street he feels does not belong on his street with out his prior consent.
But meanwhile, here we are, a community of advocates and activists for positive change, back and forth with he said she said, and the time, energy and thought being put into this, not to mention the damages between influencial private citizens are mounting, creating rifts and divides between groups who could work together to force positive meaningful change, when it matters the most. Nothing matters more to a politician than the "weather" right before the elections.
If it takes a lawsuit to make the council follow the rules, then do it, if they procrastinated and caused a problem that should have been ready to be handled in a moments notice, when they had advanced notice it was coming,an dit costs us all some tax money, then do it. Let the councilmen/women where that badge of shame. The buck stops with them.
We put them there to do a job, and frankly that job has not been done on so many levels. I relish the fact that there are many I will be able to vote AGAINST.
Thank all of you for your opinions, etc.
Yes, we may disagree, but I am one all for bringing a matter to the Council when all else fails because they hold the purse strings; and you have to make it PUBLIC. The very best advice I received years ago when I became entangled in all of this good stuff was to KEEP IT PUBLIC.
What's wrong with bringing it to the podium? That's what all the hassles were about concerning Council's "sign-in" sheets - one for what is on the agenda and one for other matters on the public's mind.
The candidate who's running this fall who's wife and mother are two of the Plaintiffs would be Democrat and his name is John Gonder, running for Council-at-Large.
And that's another thing, what kind of damages have you suffered? Seeing most of the Plaintiffs live in my precinct where I was previous Precinct Committeeperson, what kind of damages have you suffered? This is relevant and you have to have suffered some. When I approached the Party and asked them to make the 3rd Precinct smaller, the County (I guess) englarged the 3rd Precinct on me. It's a huge precinct, located in the 3rd District.
And, if my memory serves me correctly, we lost people from New Albany in the 2000 Census; they moved to the County. Again, where are your damages?
As I try to be a decent human being, I'm sorry some may feel I am "attacking" the Plaintiffs. No, a certain few are suing you and me and theirselves and people want to know why this new plan isn't acceptable... What ideas of a few hasn't been accomplished?
This is why I feel it should have been brought out in public at Council and addressed as a concern so all could know why we are being sued. Some people want to blame Maury Goldberg, some people want to blame Larry Kochert, some people want to blame a whole lot of people. Guess this may be where everyone's perspective may differ.
There is no way I will disagree with the statement about the frustration with the Council and trying to get things done. After X amount of years of dealing with certain individuals over and over again, you would have to realize I recognize yours' and certain Council member's frustrations -- at getting anything done.
But, when the rubber hits the road, Council controls the purse strings and you will always, always have to follow process if you want to work within the system and get anything accomplished. It could be ten years, that's true, maybe even 30...but there's a lot of work to do to clean up old messes.
Peace, NA.
Very interesting............
In an earlier commentlisted above, it was said that some of the lawsuit plaintiffs had asked to be removed from the plaintiff list in the lawsuit.
Then, there was a reference to "John". Do you mean John Gonder who is a candidate for Council in this election?
Question.... can a Candidate legally be on the election ballot
if he is in the process of suing the City of New Albany ???
How does state law deal with this?
The Democrat Party should look into
the laws regardimg a candidate who
is suing the City.
Simply more questions the rest of us need answered -- thus the public forum would have been nice; again, my opinions.
This saga gets more intriguing all the
time. Maybe we can write a novel and
the local bookstore can sell it.
Are there more of the plaintiffs who want to pull out of the lawsuit ?
How many plaintiffs does it take to make a lawsuit legal? 10-15-20 ??
Honestly, I simply do not know.
I, too, am interested in which Plaintiffs are still standing.
Public information -- shouldn't be 2 hard to find out!
Thanks for writing.
Again, still, all of this against the plaintiffs, yet not much at all mentioned except from a few regarding the councils failure to act on their duty!
This is like beating a horse because it is trying to pull a carriage that the wheels fell off of, the problem is not the horse, its the carriage.
Not to be sarcastic, and I hope you don't take it as such, but those nuts and bolts fell off that carriage a loooonnnngggg time ago.
This "stuff" didn't just happen LATELY. Look all around you in downtown New Albany, and try and tell me this "stuff" JUST HAPPENED.
Again, what damages have the Plaintiffs suffered? No one will answer the question. Shucks.
I'm not a plaintiff but I have been damaged by being under represented contrary to the laws of the State Of Indiana. I live in the 2nd. Isn't that good enough? It should be.
As for damages, as soon as you're able to put a price tag on matters like equal representation, then please let us know the % markup.
How much did it cost for the South to resist civil rights for a full century after the Civil War? Maybe they shouldn't have waited until the 1960's to "file suit." Maybe they should have asked nicely to be given what they were and are entitled to under the law.
I'm sure Lester Maddox would have bent over backwards to give it to them.
I believe the redistricting lawsuit might proceed with one plaintiff, but irrespective, the thing to remember is that the feds already have ruled in the sense of informing the council's titular head (and I'm being charitable) that the council has been in the wrong.
It's open, and it's shut.
Now, all we must agree upon is how the council goes about redressing ITS mistake according to the law, and seeing as there is some resistance to that quaint notion, such as the currently proposed figures, it's hard to predict what might happen next.
Just remember, folks: Any money that this process costs derives from the council's sloth, indolence and refusal to heed the law.
But please - feel free to continue attacking the messenger. Seems to me that the potty police might feel the slightest twinge of empathy on that particular point.
Excuse me DFC but how can you honestly look around our city and ask what damages the Plaintiffs have suffered.
We are on the same pothole filled streets, the same decrepit sewer lines, the same flood plane, suffer the same slumlord deficiencies,and the same lack of concern for disobeyed laws & ordinances that you are.
All we are asking is that our elected government follow the same standard that they expect us to . That being obey the law and do that which they are elected and paid to do!
I for one think the council under Larry Kochert has this handled correctly, now Why Does Jeff Gahan want to side with the plaintiffs and cost taxpayers an enormous amount of money?
Shame on you Gahan, you talk out of both sides of your mouth I think that makes you what's known as a politician
The "potty police" were required to post a ONE MILLION DOLLAR BOND, even though the case had to be heard within two weeks, over our failed sewer plan.
No empahty from us, and still no attacks from this side of the fence, simply questions.
Damages? Have you read the blog Letters from New Albany, Have you read and seen the pictures on my blog?
Have you not driven down the road and seen people doing their damndest to maintain a nice home, only to be stuck next door to a hell hole?
Have you ever had the government try to put a toxic waste dump 1/4 of mile away from an elementary school, 350 yards away from a daycare center, only to have the city council people LIE to you that they have the final vote if it goes in or not, then when you call them out on the lie, council people cuss you out? Then show up in support of placing the chemical dump in the center of the city?
In my humble opinion this lawsuit is the product of DECADES of sloth and indiffernc by our council. If it costs us, joe taxpayer $100k, even $250K then so be it. It is OUR fault things have come to this, because WE kept putting the same people in the very seats that created this dilema.
Hit hard, do NOT settle, make them have legal judgement passed on them that they failed to act. Then clean out the procrastinators when the general voting public who only votes on name recognition alone realizes the name they vote for is a name that cost the city a butt load of money......
Perhaps the "potty police" were required to post a bond because their case was not an open and shut case, at least in the court's eyes. There is a big difference in the two cases. Comparing apples and pig's ears.(grin)
We know you wish that was the case, but it wasn't. Too bad you weren't standing with us then, as those who stood and fought for the remonstrance against some ungodly property tax increases.
Redistricting is not going to solve the lack of enforcement of rental properties. Years of certain people always doing the same things...same ole messes.
Some Districts are in a Food Plain area and need more drainage work, some Districts need sewer work, it goes on and on.
Damages by the Council over lack of code enforcement because we can't hire a competent building comissioner is not the Council's fault. That position is filled at the "Mayor's" whim, not Council. They simply fund it.
Seeing the sewer plan failed and we are signing another "Consent Decree", I'm not sure where any of you get off that the "Judge thought there was no merit". You have to be joking. The ignorance on issues that have been swirling around you for "ott" amount of years seems to have slipped right on by you, while some of us have been trying for years to accomplish what you are trying to (I guess, that would be enforcement of all laws, right)?
Give me a break. 'Nuff said.
I assume your last paragraph is directed at me. Would you please go back and read what I posted?
If your comment was directed at me, how did you get that from what I posted? In complicated cases it is not uncommon for bonds to be required. Yes, I know that for a fact. I said nothing about the "Judge thought there was no merit". I meant absolutely nothing along those lines.
You know, you last sentence in that paragraph sounds like jealousy to me. Other people have had success(redistricting) and you feel that you have not had success yet. Yeah, it is just my opinion but you just might want to think about it. It's not that the redistricting plaintiffs are smarter than you, they just had a much simpler case to win. The Council was wrong. Open and shut.
Please don't assume I was posting to you; nope, I can't disagree with Council being wrong in not redistricting when they should have; neither did the County (which does redistrict according to reigstered voters, unlike New Albany). The County filed their redistricting intentions sometime in September and they at State Level for approval (they should have done this process also in 2002, like our City Council).
All I am saying is there are so many laws that have been broken by the Council, and probably most of them done by sheer ignorance and bad "advice".
As I am aware a plan was drawn up by the City Council, for the Plaintiffs, I still am not sure what the disagreement is. As a public person being sued -- only interested, that's it.
It is the Council's job to do such; and I must (though I don't want to) disagree with setting up a "Committee" with the three Plaintiffs seeing that's against the law, too.
Don't worry...I'm sure it will all work itself out.
No attacks here, from me to you or else wise.
Peace.
I don't believe the committee is illegal. The full council still has to vote to accept a plan. The law does not state how that plan has to come about.
Sorry about my assumption.
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