Surprise, surprise, surprise. The cave-in happened on E 15th St. The sewer board meeting today at 3:30 pm is where the Engineers will be picked, through RFP's, to "study" the problem. The pipe is made out of terra cotta, in case you are wondering the age of same.
After all the millions spent between Spring & Elm in this area; after (and we're verifying same) receiving credits two administrations ago for fixing this issue, we are at a loss for words.
Sewer Board is already talking about having to move the pipe and run the sewer a different direction. This company will have to perform several soil tests, etc., to find a suitable place for same (millions, not a million like some are being told). I asked specifically about the storm drain in the area and they told me it was running parallel to the collapsed sewer. Wouldn't you think they both would be giving and maybe both have to be moved?
Today, 3:30, 3rd Floor. Peace, New Albany.
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I just saw this, thank you for the information, even though I didn't see it in time for that meeting this afternoon. I just would like to say that the "study" period should have been over long before this happened. The 3rd District CM on his blog says that the lines run parallel to the CSX tracks. Given the condition of the tracks, would the tons of weight of the freight trains pushing down on sinking track beds have caused the pipe/line to break? If the CSX track problem along with the trains weight did cause the sewer line problem, then CSX should dig into their huge wallet and do the sewer line repairs along with rebuilding the entire 15th St. track bed making it strong enough to withstand the tons of weight that todays freight trains carry.
The RR was talking about abandoning that line under England's administration.
Yes, I agree. That was what was SOOOO wrong with the plan we chose. It did not fix the old pipes in the City, simply expanded towards the County.
When, oh, when, will we ever get out fixed? And, when I asked about the storm drain lying parallel with same, the City isn't worried about it. Hey, it could be the source of the leak and if they lying side by side, what do you think?
Personally, there is no excuse for this happening. Simply looking at the monthly books put out by EMC since they've been here and knowing the work expended under England -- NO EXCUSE. Wonder if that area was included in the modeling?
Thanks for caring.
P.S. Sorry for the typos.
Are you saying New Albany has old clay pipes by the railroad? If so, it was probably broken after the first train went by many years ago! If a train derails, can the railroad file a lawsuit and blame New Albany for using inferior pipes and not replacing them? How long has the city known this was a problem? I agree the study period should have been done way before now. So, does this mean our sewer rates are going to be raised even more?
When the City was considering "abandoning" that stretch of sewer line and the RR was going to reroute, all under England. The City even received credits for all the work "done" down there by England.
Certain politicos have known a LONG time, in answer to your question.
If, when the article ran about the renovations of the Calumet Club, and the old pipes were in there, you know they had to know.
This is why Susan Johnson & I always maintained the "Plan" picked under Overton would not work. Now, certain Council members and the Sewer Board Attorney, Mr. Fifer, will growl at you and say "but, we don't have the millions to replace these old lines." Well, we gave the millions to the City; the City swore on a stack of Bibles with the EPA their "Plan" would fix the inner-City. All they spent our millions on was putting new lines out for expansion so more development could come in from the County.
The Sewers just received all of the extra jail bond EDIT monies from the County. They were planning on using it on another project that should have already been fixed, the Robert E. Lee.
They'll have to answer to the EPA; that's all I know. Personally, I am thankful the EPA works for all of us; though you have to know not everyone looks at it the way we do -- that OUR money that's being used for who knows what?
Don't even get me started! Thanks for caring enough to ask.
And another P.S., the problem is the soil; it's sand and they can't move it to 13th, it is too. They submitted ALL of these geological maps and information through the CAP (Capacity Assurance Plan) and the PER (Preliminary Engineering Report), which became merged and is agreed to by us and the EPA, with all revised copies at the Library Reference Section.
All I can say is "someone has some 'splaining to do". It should have been included in the last modeling. They should have found it in the 1999 SSES (Sewer System Evaluation Study, located at the plant).
What a nightmare is created...when the right hand does not know what the left hand did... Nite.
I don't see how CSX would be able to sue the city in case of a derailment. Granted there is the soil problem mentioned, but again, CSX is responsible for maintaining the condition of their tracks and track beds making sure they are strong enough to withstand tons and tons of weight pushing down on them. As the tracks sink further, the "soil" is also pushed down and because there are "flower pots" for sewer pipes, the pressure would cause them to break.
We agree; they have their problem and we have ours. It would be so much easier to blame it on the railroad, wouldn't it.
In New Albany, even though I have never been a history buff, you have to know the history of who did what when and where with these durn sewers. Thanks.
If New Albany has any (old) large busted sewer lines and/or storm water lines pouring out in the vacinity of the railroad tracks (that are washing away sand, dirt, gravel, and/or concrete), I can see where the courts could hold the city responsible, if there were a train derailment due to those circumstances. I can tell you there is a large amount of previous work by construction companies working for the city that would be looked into for answers. Also, the number of times the railroad has repaired/reconditioned and had problems with those tracks would be viewed. Remember when the train ran off the track down by the high school? Thankfully no cars overturned and no one was hurt. New Albany is a river town and perhaps the river washes in underground moving the sand (aquafer, underground river). There have been areas of concern due to soil/water, including New Albany High School (Zellers cellar) and building the auditorium. Now, if we can prove THERE IS QUICKSAND in the area, maybe CSX will reroute/abandon the line along 15th street. Could we be so lucky?! In the meantime, to all who read the blogs about New Albany, try reading all the sewer engineering studies like Yvonne and I have tried to do. By the way, does anyone know if the city has the Second Amended Consent Decree, yet? I think I see Federal Court in New Albany's future.
Susan
Thank you friend, for your comments. Amen.
Does anyone know if there has been any problem with the houses on either side of 15th sinking?
No. Strange you would ask about that. Warnings are high amongst City officials worried about a "spill" and/or sewage entering the houses. THEY ARE BIG TIME WORRIED. I was just asking someone if I should make a reposting, because of the seriousness of the situation, or put it under comments.
Guess we'll simply keep the thread of this going here.
Thank you for your comments and questions.
It burns me there has to be "new studies", new "geological" data, etc., when it is all in the "Plan" submitted in 2001 & 02. That's partly what we paid millions for.
Whole section in there about the soil, geological info, flood plain info, elevations, anything imaginable (technocolor, too).
It is almost more than a body can handle.
Anon: We agree, and know. Let the chips fall where they may. There are employees still working there today that know they almost lost a garage down there before...thus the reasoning the right hand doesn't know and doesn't care to find out what that left hand did do.
"They" (the City) are the ones swearing their lives to God...everyone is aware.
Yvonne, how and why did you become a walking encyclopedia on our sewers? Sounds like you should be on the sewer board. I'm just curious as it's not a "glamorous" issue or anything. How does one become so knowledgeable about something most of us never even think about. Wish we had someone as passionate about all the other aspects of local governance.
Gina, thanks for your kind words.
The nightmare on "Main Street" caused me to get involved in the local sewage business...something I would never have dreamed of doing, until it "bit" us in the rear end. Then, the City did a lot of lieing to us (didn't have maps of our area, etc.), so I teamed up with Susan Johnson (who has so much more experience) and together we took it down in 2000, analyzing all data and doing all public commenting on the "Plan" and the "Amended Consent Decree".
Going back and forth to Mexico (down to Cabo San Lucas or usually Nuevo Vallarta), I use to feel really bad about the lack of sewers and people still washing their clothes in a river. Then, we found out several (and there still are some out there) homeowners up and down this street were/are paying sewer bills and didn't have one.
Reality set in at that time. Best to start in your own back yard before you take on the rest of the world! What's that old saying? Charity begins at home.
It's dull, dirty, and non-appreciated work, but someone has to do it. And, I have a lot of tenacity when it comes to sinking my teeth into something; like a durn pitbull -- ain't letting go until it's fixed (which might last beyond my lifetime here in New Albany).
Garner, when he was elected in his Primary, met with all people who ran against him, down at Tommy Lancasters. Those in attendance were Larry Clemons, Larry Scharlow, Maury Goldberg, Tony Toran, Garner, and myself. He went around the table asking each person "exactly" what they "wanted" from him. Everyone had something they wanted...but when he got to me, he interrupted everyone and told everyone at that table I would be his point person on sewers. I didn't ask to be, he told everyone I would be.
Then, he told Tim Dietrich I was going to be on the Sewer Board. I just laughed, because we all knew that was never going to happen.
None of what he said was true; along with what he said about enforcing the variances on Main Street -- promises made to both my husband and me.
So, we just keep trucking, and some on the council still keep throwing Susan and I under that bus, but we're use to it. They truly resent the EPA works for you and I (and them), but that's their problemo, not ours. We have a great working relationship with the EPA. This City sure isn't going to do the right thing -- we've been waiting going on 30 years now (that's how long some people have worked on sewers in little ole New Albany). Can you imagine?
Thanks for asking. Sewers always lead you right back to the Council, and on it goes.
Hope you are feeling well today. Take it easy; maybe when you get better we'll get out and show you "Old Faithful" that shoots higher than the real Old Faithful. It will amaze and disgust you, both, so much you will never be the same...kids are playing in it. It's like you came across a terrible car accident and you can not walk away from it.
Be safe, Yvonne
Gina, you also invoke pleasant memories for me. Being from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, then working three jobs to support me & mine (1 as an analyst for CSX during the day up in Frankfort 12 to 16 hrs a day, 2 Chief Nascar Scorer up in Charleston, IN -- later moving to the new Louisville Motor Speedway and being the Chief Nascar Scorer there and 3 working on the weekend doing various data entry jobs.
After CSX laid us all off, I didn't know where life was going to lead me. Next thing I know, a job offer to be a Consultant for Cortex, out in Waltham, MA arrived offering me twice what I made in all 3 jobs combined. No choice but to go, though you gotta know I was leery being from the country and all...but I also had my street smarts by then (which helps).
When I arrived and saw Technology Highway with Lotus 1-2-3; I knew this little girl had come a long way to work in Waltham with an international company as a consultant for international firms using a fourth generation computer language they invented.
All of that hard work paid off, and I went on to various consulting jobs around the country; only coming back to the Louisville area because my daughters started having grandbabies (it's just great, too).
The language barrier got me. I'll never forget the landlord telling me to set my "bowers" out on Wednesdays. After asking him to run that past me again, he repeated the same. In the back of my mind I'm thinking about the bowery I've heard that's in another city, trying my darndest (what with all the other newness I was dealing with -- like rotaries) to figure it out. I had to go to work and ask work what he meant. A good laugh was had by all as they told me he meant my garbage cans. Oh, yeah... Another thing, I got shin splints within six weeks after arriving because of commuting (another new experience) from Revere to Waltham. The Doc said my "ankles" were not built to withstand all of the concrete I was walking. Surely miss Cape Code and the National seashore there. Miss driving to the point and getting those whole lobsters live from the fishermen for about what -- $7 a piece? Miss the history of Boston, but not the hustle and bustle. Now, downtown surely needs new infrastructure with drinking water pipes.
The only reason I printed the above comment is to show Tim's reading comprehension skills.
There was no "bashing", and congratulating on Al Goodman now serving on the stormwater board, along with questions...which I see you have chose not to answer.
A simple notice of the mis-spelling of your last name would have been more appropriate, as there was no malice involved.
Need I say more?
Yvonne, we're all sensitive about the spelling issue, seeing as your man Steve "Dave Ramsey or bust" Price generally, and intentionally, renders incorrect spellings and pronunciations as part and parcel of his "pander to the people he helps to keep poor" platform of mandated regress.
That's One Southern Indiana, Steve. That's Rosenbarger with a "a", not with a "u" or "e."
Sorry. No harm. Our opinion.
Yvonne, enjoyed your memories of Waltham this morning. I once lived in a 7000st loft on Moody St in Waltham..in the old Francis Lowell Cabot Mill complex. Used to take the train that stopped right at my door into Cambridge and downtown...that was living! The commuting on 128 is hard though, did it for a few years. I also am enjoying the slower pace here, Boston and New York are driven intense cities. Speaking of sewers, from hearing your story I really should check into my own sewer lines? I'm on the opposite side of the street so maybe we weren't affected? I know my insurance guy has offered me coverage for sewage backing up into my house...no you think I should have that? do you?
New Albanian, I guess we are all "sensitive" about our names. Tim wasn't defamed, though, that's my opnion. (Not that I didn't have to hold onto the edge of my chair to write my response, but I bottled up those old feelings and decided they don't play.)
If you could only hear how many ways they can pronounce or try to even speak my first name! Avon, U-Vonne, Von, Evonna, -- a rose by any other name, right? Someone even calls me Yevvy, who doesn't drive a Chevy, she drives a Dodge.
Of course you are allowed your opinions of Steve Price, or anyone else. And, I am allowed to disagree. Thanks for your comments.
Gina,
Waltham was a neat town. There was this really good restaurant out there, and I can't remember the name of it to save my life, as I would like to write and get their recipe for their crab casserole dish. Yummy.
No, I don't think you need to purchase the item your insurance man is selling you. The previous owner of your house stood with Frank and I in getting ours and both of his properties on without paying tap-ins, because residents had been paying for 30 years for services not rendered. The former owner of your house had 20 years worth of bills (he saved each and every one of them), so the laterals are new as they are for us on this side of the street. Mr. Baize and our home were the only ones that stood to the end fighting.
By all rights, the new lateral for your house should hold up for at least 20 years. Now, if the sewer surcharges much more, everyone in town will need new laterals time by the time they get done with us.
Take care.
Actually, Tim, I was referring to when Garner started his term as Mayor, and Susan, you and I rode the elevator down. You were not in the Sewer Board meeting; Susan and I assumed you were with the Mayor, because of what you said to both of us. Your exact words were "Congratulations, Yvonne, I hear you are going to be on the new Sewer Board". Susan and I looked at each other and laughed and that's when I told you, in exact words "you must be mistaken". "No", you insisted and you stated you "heard it from the big man himself". We laughed, Susan and I some more, and told you the following exact words "someone is lieing to you". We knew there was no way they would put Susan Johnson or me on that Board; had nothing to do with you serving on that board. Sorry.
Dear Yvonne,
I read your remarks about the East 15th Street situation. What would be your solution as to a resolution to the continuing problen with the site.
Maury
It is an old terra cotta pipe, one we should have replaced (and moved) with the "Plan".
Keep hearing we just can't afford to replace the old pipes in New Albany and I just keep asking why didn't you do it with all of those millions? Why did you expand the sewers, rather than fix them?
Then, I get threatened with ANOTHER sewer rate hike. So...what would you do, Maury? Do you not feel it should have been part of the "Plan", seeing how long we have been working down there and seeing we have already received credits for that work, same as the Robert E. Lee?
Millions, upon millions, upon millions, have been spent in that area. It's quicksand, we all know we have a lot of quicksand, and?
We have already warned them about 13th St., becos there is quicksand there, too. Thank you for asking!
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